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    11/12/2006
    cream, sugar or milk...
    A small part of Jane's response in If You Can't Take the Heat, mentioned Passions Breastfeeding sex bit:
    Further for Ms. V to write that she didn't expect this type of response also seems a bit ridiculous. Her book was filled with extreme and provocative sex scenes (sex while breastfeeding?). Of course, there was going to be negative responses. I suspect Jaid Black get hate mail constantly for corrupting the morals of the world.
    off of that Lisa Valdez asked:
    Okay, and will someone please tell me what the big deal is with sex while breastfeeding? Why is that so shocking? Sex made the baby, and it’s not as if the baby knows what’s going on. I think it’s weird that people think it’s weird. Sorry, that’s off topic. Forget I asked.


    more, more, more **now updated with list and links**

    Now this is a topic I find mucho amusing, more because of a chat than about the book itself.

    The scene in question takes place at the very end of the book. And I will have to go find mine to be sure but I think it is all of a paragraph. But it totally squicks some people out.

    Does it squick you? Did you make note of it while reading?

    A few months back (I think) while searching for something on AAR I came across something talking about sex while breast feeding (is this one word or two?). It was Laurie's News and Views #77 from August 1, 1999 (I soooooo love the old Laurie's News and Views much more than I like the ATBF of today. Is that just me?).

    I expected it to be about Passion (no I didn't note the date at the time *g*). But it wasn't... there were OTHER books where this happens. The old list that the AARList members put together had these titles:
    * Broomstick Cowboy by Kathleen Eagle 11/93
    * Drums of Autumn by Diana Gabaldon
    * Heaven Above by Sara Jarrod 9/96
    * Caroline & the Raider by Linda Lael Miller 3/92
    * Skye O'Malley by Bertrice Small
    * Sunset Embrace by Sandra Brown
    * Hawk O'Toole's Hostage by Sandra Brown
    * The Shattered Rose by Jo Beverley
    * Silver Flame buy Susan Johnson
    * Night in Eden by Candice Proctor
    * Between Friends by Candace Spencer
    * Tender Trap by Beverly Barton 1/97
    * Tangled by Mary Balogh 3/94
    I have never read Kathleen Eagle, Diana Gabaldon, Jo Beverley or Candace Spencer. The Sara Jarrod book I have read in its redone form as an EC novel (more on that later). The Sandra Brown book I think is the one I am scared to read. And I haven't read Hawk O'Toole's Hostage (although I think I dhave it). Silver Flame and Night in Eden I have read but breastfeeding sex doesn't ring a bell at all. Maybe I didn't even notice? And I have Tangled but don't think I have read it.

    Any others that anyone can think of? Have you read any of these books? Did you find them squicky? Do you even remember there being breastfeeding sex?

    Would this make you put the book down and walk away? Would you just skip over the scene? Or would you not even notice it?

    Just a Little Patience
    If You Can't Take the Heat

    Labels: , ,

    18 Comments:
    1. Let me just state for the record that I don't know if Passion's breastfeeding scene would bother me. I haven't read past the first two chapters because I didn't find it interesting. But I know that there was a lot of commentary about this.

      By Anonymous Jane, at 11/12/2006 12:04:00 PM  

    2. I'm guessing the women who are so disturbed by the idea of having sex while breastfeeding never nursed and co-slept with their babies? Or perhaps just didn't have sexually demanding husbands?

      I nursed my youngest for 18 months. We co-slept. If I wasn't having sex while nursing, I basically wasn't having sex (or I was running off to the bedroom for ten minutes while the kids watched TV, then racing back out before they realized we were gone. Not very romantic.)

      You simply pretend the baby isn't there. It was a little odd at first, but it's not like they know what's going on.

      I'm not trying to give TMI or ick anybody, but really--this isn't that big a deal. I don't think I would put it in one of my books, but it's not as yucky as it sounds, it really isn't.

      By Blogger December Quinn, at 11/12/2006 12:10:00 PM  

    3. Count me in as another who just didn't get what the big deal was. December brings up a lot of reasons why. Plus the scene in question was A) in the epilogue and, B) not 'detailed' (at least not in the way that the other sex/love scenes have be parodied as being).

      I'm on record as loving PASSION and looking forward to PATIENCE, but regardless of my bias, honest to goodness, LV just can't catch a break here. Every time her name/book is mentioned it turns into a 5-day circus/production across cyberspace. Not even JR and her Brotherhood books, gets this type of widespread, ongoing, diversive, attention.

      Lisa sure hit a nerve (or struck a chord) with her debut. As long as she's able to grow a thicker skin in terms of dealing with those who don't care for her/her work (and, yes, there seems to be many who can't make the distinction while claiming otherwise--present company excluded) she's sure to have a very interesting career, if nothing else. :-P

      By Blogger Jaye, at 11/12/2006 12:26:00 PM  

    4. wwwwwweeeeeeellllll the person I am thinking of who was way squicked out by the idea was/or had just stopped (I forget) breastfeeding at the time of the discussion.

      I have never breastfeed a baby and ::knock on wood:: never plan to so really it wasn't a huge deal to me. But while reading it I went eh?

      I even went back and reread it thinking I missed something because it just wasn't anything I had ever thought of happening. But I thought it would piss tons of people off.

      I thought tons of the book would piss off people because (as shocking as I find it) romance readers tend to be a very conservate. (not but lots, look at the romantic times board)

      AND I bought this at Walmart. *I* thought that was SUPER cool. But those people that grab and go expecting a nice avonish romance were prolly shocked.

      By Blogger sybil, at 11/12/2006 12:28:00 PM  

    5. le sigh... That should be not ALL but lots

      By Blogger sybil, at 11/12/2006 12:30:00 PM  

    6. I was breastfeeding at the time the book came out and the eventually breastfed for 2 years. Conceptually, it was not a scene that I found appealing. Of course, you may blame everything on Ned's sex drive, if you like. Talk about ad hominem attacks.

      By Anonymous Jane, at 11/12/2006 12:45:00 PM  

    7. I just can't stop laughing at the title of this post.

      I was breastfeeding at the time, too (did for two years, too, and it was so nice to get my boobs back) and it didn't squick me out. But I can definitely see where it might -- even if not *squick* -- not seem at all sexy.

      And I can easily imagine why some might be squicked out, even if I was not. Sex within proximity to children, even if the child isn't aware, is a huge hot button for some people.

      By Blogger meljean brook, at 11/12/2006 02:15:00 PM  

    8. Thank you, coming from someone as twisted as I am that means so much!

      I was thinking Got Milk? But I was pretty sure I had used that before. And then was going to go with Do you want milk with that? But then changed my mind.

      Yes I put far, far too much thought into things.

      By Blogger sybil, at 11/12/2006 02:53:00 PM  

    9. Okay, 'squicked' I can understand. :-P (Although that wasn’t my reaction (obviously). I thought the author was showing how the 'passion' the h/h shared had not dissipated, while putting her own unique twist of the clichéd HEA with new born epilogue. *g* )

      Just seems like a lot of peeps who didn't like the book, REALLY didn't like it, rather than having a 'meh' reaction (like Jane's), so I thought you were referring to peeps who were really, extremely *offended* by the depravity (tongue in cheek, folks. lol) of this scene. ;-)

      Honestly, aside from the set up of having sex in a public space, combined with the explicit language used, I really didn't see where the lovescenes were so extreme as to elicit the amazingly negative reactions PASSION has received. You'd think she cornered the market on, or invented, squicky/ridiculous lovescenes, based on some of the comments that have been posted (previously) over on AAR. lol. ;-)


      Sybil, speaking of the cover art-- because I thought I saw somewhere else where some mention that the cover art gave readers certain expectations that were blown (heh) sky high. But the cover for PASSION was almost an exact replica of the type of image that was used to brand Cheryl Holt (the fan, the embracing couple), so for me, I expected a very hot read, since this seemed like an obvious gambit by the publisher to appeal to the type of readership who liked super-sensual historicals along the lines of Holt, Schone, Holly et al.

      By Blogger Jaye, at 11/12/2006 03:03:00 PM  

    10. I think Vicki Lewis Thompson had a sex scene where the hero takes her boob in his mouth whilst she was breast feeding. I can't remember it bothering me at the time, and after reading Elloras Cave books, it all seems pretty tame to me now.

      Incidentally, I don't actually remember that scene in Passion.

      Much ado about nothing, as far as I'm concerned, just like Anne Stuart's hero having slept with men.

      By Blogger Karen Scott, at 11/12/2006 03:11:00 PM  

    11. wwwwwweeeeeeellllll the person I am thinking of who was way squicked out by the idea was/or had just stopped (I forget) breastfeeding at the time of the discussion.

      It's me you're talking about, Sybil, right? Because I was breastfeeding at the time you all tortured me in a chat with details of this.


      I'm guessing the women who are so disturbed by the idea of having sex while breastfeeding never nursed and co-slept with their babies? Or perhaps just didn't have sexually demanding husbands?

      December: Yes, it squicked me out and as it happens, I breastfed for almost two years, was breastfeeding at the time, co-slept with my baby until she "told" me (she was four months old, lol) that she didn't sleep well while co-sleeping, and have an incredibly active sex life (did then and do now). So your assumptions are wrrooooong (and rather absurd, actually). Of course, you may blame everything on Ned's sex drive, if you like. Talk about ad hominem attacks. Like Jane said.

      Frankly, I can't imagine having sex while breastfeeding because it combines a purely non-sexual act (breastfeeding) with the act of sex which, as the name implies, is everything that's sexual and that seems weird to me. Pretending the baby wasn't there? Totally not an option. I can't think of a time where I breastfed where it wasn't about the baby and I connecting on some level. And she was sucking on my nipple, for pete's sake. During sex, the only person I want sucking on my nipples is my husband, because in the context of sex, my nipples are an erogenous zone. So having sex while breastfeeding...so not for me and the idea is totally alien.

      However, I've never said I didn't think other people shouldn't do it, just that the idea made *me* shudder and I didn't find it either sexy OR something I wanted to read about in a book.

      Some people feel the same way about anal sex ;)

      I guess different things float peoples' boat. Breastfeeding during sex? Sinks my battleship!

      By Blogger Angie, at 11/12/2006 04:46:00 PM  

    12. LOL - I fondly remember that "conversation" about having sex while breastfeeding. FWIW, it didn't bother me at all, that scene. And I was a breastfeeder many, many years ago.

      By Blogger Kristie (J), at 11/12/2006 05:29:00 PM  

    13. karen! The first draft I had of this had a mention of the cold as ice gay for pay thing but it got too long...

      But I soooo agree! And it was such a think I was shocked to see the date on some of those other books. I mean that scene in the Beverly book was much much more graphic.

      ANGIE! I was wondering when you would pop in ;). Yep I was talking about you!!!!!

      good times that ;)

      By Blogger sybil, at 11/12/2006 05:31:00 PM  

    14. I was going to ask Jane about the reference to 'ad hominem attack'. :-/

      Guess that serves me right for skimming, I didn't pick up on the "sucky sex life" part of the post in question. :-P I was more agreeing to the sex while co-sleeping being not a big deal, and thought the rest of the post was along those lines....

      I'll agree with Angie (after carefully reading this time. *g*), that when I was breast feeding it more about bonding with my son, than feeling turned on if my ex.

      But considering I've heard of many couples who enjoy having the male 'nurse' from the lactating female while making love, and find that a huge turn on, (shrug), the whole baby-in-arms didn't make an impression on me either way.

      Can you tell I engaging in avoidance behaviour? How many posts is this in this one thread?

      By Blogger Jaye, at 11/12/2006 06:05:00 PM  

    15. I had to go reread the last 2 pages of PASSION to see what the big deal is. Its a throw away scene which is why I didnt remember it and it does make you wonder why Mark & Passion cant be bother to put the baby down for penetration. In some ways, it reminded me of Sue Miller's novel, THE GOOD MOTHER (which was made into a movie with Diane Keaton & Liam Neeson). The similar scene is the crux of the Miller novel and if you have ever read it, the scene is one of the most beautifully written passages of Motherly Love vs. Sexual Love you will ever read. In fact the act is so beautifully written and described that you are shocked at what happens because of it (which is probably the author's intention).


      From the list of breastfeeding sex books provided, I have read 6 of them but only remember three of them (SKYE OMALLEY, SHATTERED ROSE, TANGLED) well and all the breastfeeding sex scenes in these are more like the heroine is leaking during sex scenes. Probably the most beloved book that is not mentioned here that has the breasts-leaking-during-sex-scene is DREAMING OF YOU by Lisa Kleypas.

      By Anonymous seton, at 11/12/2006 08:54:00 PM  

    16. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I certainly wasn't implying that anypone had a "sucky sex life" or anything remotely like it. All I meant was, not having sex while breastfeeding wasn't an option for me, because my husband gets very grumpy if he doesn't get sex at least three or four times a week. It's not worth the irritation of dealing with him telling me he "doesn't feel close to me", so I learned to improvise.

      That's all I meant. It's no reflection on anyone's sex life at all, just that some husbands are more understanding than mine.

      By Blogger December Quinn, at 11/13/2006 01:20:00 AM  

    17. I cosleep & breastfeed and would not/could not have sex WHILE breastfeeding. Logistically and emotionally, it just wouldn't work for me or hubby either one.

      I have not read or do not recall ANY of the scenes in question, so I cannot vote as to whether the acts depicted therein are sexy or doable. Is there a special position in the Kama Sutra I missed that allows for the safe addition of a 22 lb ninnymonger who is squirming, suckling, pulling off and laughing, spitting up, squalling, chewing with her new tooth, and generally being a baby? *heh*

      Ellie M.

      By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11/13/2006 10:16:00 AM  

    18. Sex and breastfeeding are so natural...what's the big deal? I don't get why people get so upset at this book and author. The book was amazing and it gave me the kick I needed. I remember reading a lot of duds and then happened to spot this beautiful cover at the book store...bought the book, loved it and am now anxiously and eagerly awaiting the second (which I hope and want to be as sexy as the first).

      By Blogger romancelover, at 11/13/2006 08:44:00 PM  

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