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    My Favorite Rabid Fangirl Argument Evah
    You can't be a true fan unless you love everything the author writes, thinks, says or shits.

    That was paraphrased from Ventrue's comment...

    I am sure it is hardly a secret I am a fangirl of wards. And where I do agree with Dylan on many points, I disagree on some as well. The main thing being - don't go to a fanboard expecting discussion and never ever, evah have someone come in and 'get your back'. Someone who is a regular on the board, cool. Someone who would have been there anyway, cool. Someone that goes because they think you are being beaten up on isn't cool and as a moderator that would piss me off.

    My main beef with the Avon Ladies board is it tries to paint itself as a welcoming, fair, open minded discussion board. I admit I have spent way lil time on ward's MB or yahoo group but I have never gotten that feeling from them. It is a zoo, so I don't generally go there cuz I don't wanna be a fananimal. But hey good for them, have at it, have fun...

    Personally I am a holly fangirl and think Dylan is beyond cool (don't really know the others well but since they are in such good company I bet they rock). At the same time I can honestly say I think JR Ward is the shit and not to the point where she believes her own press. Of course if I have a question I email Ward and I spend lil time in the MB or Yahoo group... so there you go.

    It sucks that the rabid don't understand they aren't doing their gods and goddess any favors. And it sucks that some people can't love something and still respect others might not or view ANY questioning as unfanlike.

    But this isn't the first time and it won't be the last... so what do you do?

    Labels: , ,

    1. Aww! I'm a Sybil Fangirl, too! LOL

      See, the thing is, I agree with some and disagree with others, but whatever. I mean, I can totally understand, as a MOD, getting a little peeved about Dee's post. But I just think the whole banning thing was taking it a little too far.

      Totally off topic, I'm all sorts of J'd that you have Beta and I don't. I was scoping out your "categories" and I WANT THEM! Can you talk to Blogger for me and see if they'll hook me up? Because, you know, they don't like me and stuff. LOL

      By Blogger Holly, at 9/21/2006 03:54:00 PM  

    2. Awww thanks Sybil...I'm scared of Beta though, is it really all that and a bag of chips? I'm finally at a place with the regular blogger where I can come in and zip right through everything, having to learn something else, frightens the crap out of me! LOL.

      As for all the drama, I can take my part of the blame, I know better now....;)

      By Blogger Dylan, at 9/21/2006 05:06:00 PM  

    3. Er, hi Sybil. Sorry you think my post (or entire blog?) is beyond stupid and self righteous. Believe me, I'm FAR from self-rightous! Nor am I setting out to be malicious.

      I've seen awful behavior get swept under the carpet and it makes me so mad. On the same hand, a lot of people in the romance reading community are awesome. You included (I actually have mad respect for you, so it bothers me you feel my blog is stupid).

      I want to shine a light the bad behavor that gets excused away or ignored. I make no apologies for wanting to do that.

      I feel JRW is responable for her more crazed fans. They are on her boards practically all day every day and some others have even commented on how intimidating their behavior is to others on the boards. That's wrong and JRW has to know this is going on since she freqents her boards almost daily (I know this because I'm a member there since the start). She lets these insane fans get away with horrible behavior, and for that, I hold her accountable.

      Just to be clear, I also believe good behavior by authors, fans, and bloggers ahould be written about. And I state that on my blog. There are many people who do a great service to this genre and I feel that needs to be showcased as well.

      I didn't insigate any of this. All I did was write about it. The mess that came of it wasn't by my doing. If you notice, about 100 of the 121 comments were from the "Cellies" and some of them very hostile. Some were so far past the realm of reality that I honesty had to wonder about the sanity of some of the posters of those comments.

      I'm sure that as the weeks go by you'll see that I'm posting the good as well as the bad. It was just that JRW "Cellies" rabid behavior compelled me to want to start this blog, which is one I've been thinking about doing for some time now.

      So please don't hate me! I'm really nice if you get to know me.


      By Blogger The Dishing Diva, at 9/21/2006 05:23:00 PM  

    4. I feel JRW is responable for her more crazed fans. ...That's wrong and JRW has to know this is going on since she freqents her boards almost daily.... She lets these insane fans get away with horrible behavior, and for that, I hold her accountable.

      Authors are now group psychologists? Managers of Mobs and public opinion regarding their works?


      I'm a politician, and I expect my words to have some sort of reaction in the community, much more than most authors would expect from their published works, I'm sure. That being said, I cannot control the actions of my supporters, nor can I control the actions or words of those who don't like me. (Although I Reeeeally wish I could.)

      As far as I can tell, JR can only start censoring her board, removing posts which are inflammatory, or take the whole thing down.

      Internet conversations are messy, and sometimes mean. Just like in real life, only more so.

      If I were to set up a blog, or ask someone else to set up a blog, asking people to stop attacking me because they don't like what's going on in town, I would be laughed out of office. Authors who set up their own message boards have got to expect bizarre behavior on those boards. I'm not sure that reflects on the author though--more on her "marketing machine" who convinced her that an interactive web presence was Da Bomb.

      By Blogger Suisan, at 9/21/2006 05:56:00 PM  

    5. I don't know Suisan, I don't think you can equate what you do to an author BB.

      She an entertainer, you're a politician ... although somedays they do cross, don't they? hee

      An author can get on her BB and say "Ok we need to all calm down here" and settle it like that because they all wanna feel the love from her.

      Besides I'm thinking she PAYS for that forum as it's on her website. She owns it, so she might want to control it a bit.

      If it was a site set up by a fangrrrl, different story. See what I'm getting at?

      By Blogger Zeek, at 9/22/2006 06:39:00 AM  

    6. hmmmmm I can see your point zeek but can't agree

      Like I said on the holly's and dylan's board it is way possible holly's 'source' knows more than I do. But knowing the amount of books she is doing, her time table, her work schedule and the traffic on that board - there is no way she reads every post. Even knowing about things going on (which I have no clue if she did or not - if I was her I wouldn't deal with the shit or even go look at it - that is what I would be paying my mod's to do)

      That is WHY there are mods. And she is an author not their mother or babysitter. It would be like saying I am responsible for everything anyone does with any info they take from my blog or any post they make here. I am not and I rarely delete comments and where I might disgree and take the time to explain why I do - I am not going to waste my time trying to police how people think.

      It would be like saying Jodie Foster is at fault for that guy shooting at the prez because he wrote her fanletters and was obsessed with her. Damn you foster why didn't you control him!

      An author is responsible for her actions - no one elses. You are responsible for yours - no one elses. I am responsible for mine - no one elses.

      I have seen fans of actors completely go ape shit over other fans who don't LURVE their fave or are TRUE FANS and think everything out of their mouth is golden. I have seen the same actors ask that fans stop hating on another actors wife (like scary not well, when did the mental hospital get internet access hating). I have seen fans do some amazingly stupid shit and even with their gods telling them to find inner fucking peace and chill - continue to do really stupid shit because THEY the fans really knew what the actor wanted. They the fans had a duty to protect their GOD! They the fan had to put others in their place.

      I think you have to just make a choice with fucknuts and understand you CAN'T control them and just hope for the best. Of course I have been on the internet too long, am a way cynical bitch and a big believer in not wasting time on shit you really have no control over.

      As with any fandom, we make choices. And for me, I choice to enjoy the things that amuse me, point and laugh at the shit I think is stupid and try not to get too worked up over things.

      Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in very large groups.

      By Blogger sybil, at 9/22/2006 08:57:00 AM  

    7. If she is actually paying the MOD's then she needs to fire them and get new ones. They were the most unprofessional people (and calling them that is stretching it, other words pop in mind) I've ever encountered. But whatever, I'm not there anymore so I don't have to be bothered.
      And I think if JR doesn't have the time to see what's going on in a message board that reflects on her she shouldn't have it. That's just called using your God given brain.
      Oh and HI everyone I'm one of the 'other' SF girls, friend of Holly and Dylan. lol.

      By Blogger Jazz, at 9/22/2006 10:04:00 AM  

    8. yeah but I bet Jodi wishes she would have closer attention to Hinkley huh? Cease and desist?

      So you honestly think Ward couldn't, shouldn't, wouldn't step in and say something?

      I simply can't understand why that's not possible.

      Unless she truly is just letting them play not really caring what's going on.

      Do you think she doesn't see what's going on?

      I'm not dissing her. Really I'm not, I'm just confused. I guess I didn't realize she had no say into what goes on, on her board. (In other words she lets the mods do everything and anything they want.)

      And if she in fact see what's going on, then why would a word of sanity be out of line?

      It *may* help, right? Wouldn't it be wise to at least try a cease and desist?

      The forum is owned by her. And it's a different animal in my eyes the fansites started up by fans.

      I dunno, it really doesn't matter to me one way or the other. Just seems odd that everyone's saying she had nothing to do with it. I guess I understand if she in fact has nothing to do with the board, otherwise, Her silence speaks volumes to me and others.

      Don't hate me for being a pest! :)

      By Blogger Zeek, at 9/22/2006 10:07:00 AM  

    9. I would think, if she has no time to keep up with it, that she might want to try and make time.

      These people are not represnting her very well and I would at least want to keep an eye on it if I were her.

      It's not the smartest thing in the world to let other people handle your pr.

      By Blogger Zeek, at 9/22/2006 10:13:00 AM  

    10. I meant its not wise to let other people handle your pr without keeping an eye on it ...

      By Blogger Zeek, at 9/22/2006 10:16:00 AM  

    11. Loving your thoughts Zeek! Right along mine...

      By Blogger Jazz, at 9/22/2006 10:17:00 AM  

    12. I just read something very interesting over at Dishing Diva and someone said that J.R. is not holding all the cards on the website. Could very well be thatthe whole thing is run by some group called Millenium Promotion. The two chicks that run this business are also the moderators of the board....hmmmmm

      By Anonymous Kristy, at 9/22/2006 10:52:00 AM  

    13. Ok now THAT would make sense ... but I stand by my point that it's best to keep an eye on the person in charge of your pr.

      (She do best with getting that board off of her official website. When it's an officaul authorized website people tend to think the author has control of the content in some way.)

      By Blogger Zeek, at 9/22/2006 10:56:00 AM  

    14. I would think, if she has no time to keep up with it, that she might want to try and make time.
      Nora Roberts has a crazy modding a very popular board of hers.

      There are quite a few message boards where the crazies run the joint.

      The Avon Ladies board is rabid fangirl happy.

      And well really... so what? The rabid are fans just like the fangirls and general readers. If they want to foam at the mouth, who are we to take that away?

      Where it crosses the line (to me) is when they start appearing EVERYWHERE their god or goddess is mentioned, talked about or questioned. And you can't count The DD site or SF because they invited them in by posting about their haven.

      They should have expected cellies to post. Same way as Jazz is posting here today.

      By Blogger sybil, at 9/22/2006 11:20:00 AM  

    15. So you honestly think Ward couldn't, shouldn't, wouldn't step in and say something?
      I am not ward and have honestly not talked to her about any of this because I think it is a non issue.

      Could she say something?

      Should she say something?
      I go back and forth on this...

      Would she say something?
      I doubt it.

      I simply can't understand why that's not possible.

      Unless she truly is just letting them play not really caring what's going on.

      I didn't say it wasn't possible nor did I say she didn't care. I simply think she as any with any author, needs to pick their battles.

      And in my own personal view (again nothing I have been told just what I think)... she isn't writing these books for fans otherwise there is a shit load of things that wouldn't have happened so far.

      She is writing what she feels she 'sees' and what she feels is 'honest to her world'. If I was in her shoes, I don't think I would be reading a ton of questioning things either or reviews. Because when do the 'voices' become not the characters but the fans.

      I can bet you good money she will never see this post or SF or the DD. Will it be sent to her? prolly... but I seriously doubt she will go check it out.

      Do you think she doesn't see what's going on?
      Again I can't say for sure but I don't think she should (because of what I think above).

      I'm not dissing her.
      it wouldn't matter if you were, you don't have to like her just cuz I do ;)

      Really I'm not, I'm just confused. I guess I didn't realize she had no say into what goes on, on her board. (In other words she lets the mods do everything and anything they want.)
      oh I doubt that... I am sure she gives direction and I think she has a finger in everything to a point. But if she read every thread and responded to every question I can't see her ever having time to write another book.

      And if she in fact see what's going on, then why would a word of sanity be out of line?
      who knows... I think you have to pick your battles... and as much as any author may write a book for themselves or to be true to their world... hitting the NYT best seller list has to be a good thing... and who is going to put her there? The rabid play a big part in that, I would think. So as an author, isn't that a sticky line to walk?

      The forum is owned by her. And it's a different animal in my eyes the fansites started up by fans.
      yep and if she wants it to be a happy happy joy joy small world... well it is her forum. And once an author opens any list, mb, blog or whatever up for the public to post on, they can't be responsible for every fan.

      Don't hate me for being a pest! :)
      Not at all! You are never a pest!

      By Blogger sybil, at 9/22/2006 11:44:00 AM  

    16. Ok, I see your point. Well, anyway, all it makes me sure of is that when one gets THAT popular one should probably stay away from having a BB!

      By Blogger Zeek, at 9/22/2006 12:13:00 PM  

    17. As a politician, my currency is opinion. My opinion on why something should happen, your opinion why something else should happen. We talk, we try to figure out something which will work.

      That is NOT an author's "stock and trade." An author's "job" is to write books, not to satisfy what her fans think she should do or not do. (Misery, anyone?)

      OK, so, let's say as a politician I own a blog, or a message board dedicated to my issues. (A lot of politicians do this; I don't.) What if a fight breaks out there, with my supporters blasting someone who comes on and makes a comment they don't agree with. Am I obligated to tell them to stop fighting? I sure hope not. Am I obligated to tell everyone to play nice? I sure hope not. It's the internet, baby. Fights break out. About the only thing I could see to do in that situation is close the whole mess down.

      Which, really, is why most politicians are shutting down their dedicated blogs and BBs. It all gets really nasty very quickly.

      So, assuming that I, who deals in opinions all day long, am not willing to step into the fray when it comes to BBs, why inthe world is it up the author to control behavior on her message board? Authors aren't ususally public people, adept in group manipulation.

      I don't think this has anything to do with JR Ward at all. And I certaily don't think it's her responsibility to read every message on her message board.

      By Blogger Suisan, at 9/22/2006 03:40:00 PM  

    18. Sybil & Suisan, I can see the point both of you have made about authors not necessarily having time to keep up with everything that happens on a board. Lord knows, we'd probably all rather they were reading.

      However . . .

      I can also see the point the others are making about the board actually being part of the author's website. If I owned a site and had a board on it, I'd want to know what was happening on it. If I didn't have time to keep up with that, I would either figure out a way to monitor things without seeing every single post or close down the board. Regardless, I'm make damn sure that the appointed moderators used practices that reflected MY values at all times. (And those that know me know I don't use four letter words that often.)

      Yes, there is a gray area here. I can see that, but that still doesn't excuse anyone from total responsibility regarding something that's literally being done in their name on their site. Call it unfair or call it PR but it's still part and partial of having a presense on the web.

      By Blogger Bev (BB), at 9/23/2006 08:56:00 AM  

    19. Writing. Not reading. Although it's okay for them to be reading too. ;p

      Grumble, grumble. I need more coffee.

      By Blogger Bev (BB), at 9/23/2006 09:46:00 AM  

    20. Well, PR is a difficult thing, no doubt.

      You want your public presence to reflect who you are, but your PR guys often take your image down a road which is not exactly where you are comfortable.

      Yes, I agree that an author should use moderators who reflect the author's point of view. But to hold the AUTHOR personally responsible for every flair-up? Nope. Not comfortable doing that.

      Get angry at the moderators--it sounds as if a lot of people already are--but the author herself really cannot be expected to read all the posts on her message board.

      Which is why I think the PR firm did her a disservice when they encouraged her to have an interactive web presence. Shrug.

      By Blogger Suisan, at 9/23/2006 12:11:00 PM  

    21. I don't believe anyone expects an author to read every single post on their boards, but I have to tell you that if I heard the owner and primary topic of a board, discussion list or even blog didn't have some way of keeping on top of things, both in terms of content and management, I'd stay far, far away from it. Remember we're talking about something that everyone also admits is a common occurence on the net. Explosions do happen all the time and it's not like there aren't already accepted ways to deal with them in practice all over the net, too.

      Because when all is said and done, it's not the moderator's names on the place. Now, is it?

      By Blogger Bev (BB), at 9/23/2006 01:08:00 PM  

    22. pppssssttt....

      ward never posts about rules and regs

      and this has been posted about on the site

      We need to remember there are processes for everything and not all issues can be handled in a min. I think with wards work load, deadlines and life along with the mods they got the whole thing taken care of quickly.

      just saying ;) carry on

      By Blogger sybil, at 9/23/2006 01:31:00 PM  

    23. I hear you, Sybil, but frankly the workload argument is a bunch of baloney. Why? We're ALL busy people.

      By Blogger Bev (BB), at 9/23/2006 02:40:00 PM  

    24. Finally, people are realizing that there's a serious prob going on at Mrs. Ward's boards. My beef with the mods is how they play favorites and cater to certain members. When I was a regular visitor, I once sent a complaint to both Angie and Dorine that another member was being rude and harassing me with threats. They both replied that this member is just playing a game so she couldn't have been serious and besides, outside of the boards she's really the sweetest individual. So let me get this're dismissing my complaint even though she's sending pm's and e-mails outside of the boards, because, after all, it's just a game that I had no part of to begin with. And also, because you guys are all friends off the boards, she won't be reprimanded. Wow.

      I won't even get into the insane antics of many of the regulars there. Most of you already know.

      By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9/24/2006 12:33:00 AM  

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