For the Quinn readers take III
Two recent posts about Julia Quinn discussed her upcoming books. Only these books are a touch different, this time they will be coming soon to a computer near you vs a bookstore. And personally I find that exciting. I love, love, love books and don't see them ever going away. I don't want them too (sorry jane *g*). But 'E' is the future for many and it is exciting to see a big publisher come to the party. Even if they are fashionable late, they are ahead of some NY publishers. The topic had some great comments from you guys as well as some unanswered questions that seemed to be best answered by Julia Quinn. And hey, she did. It turns out to be a good thing because the page I linked to has some incorrect info. JuliaQ gives us some info on why she took on this project, the price and the chance these books will see print. The biggest question seems to be, why write them? I would like to let you know that this is in no way a marketing ploy. To be completely frank, the 2nd Epilogues aren't going to increase sales of the series. I mean really--do you think anyone would buy them who hasn't already read the original books? And anyone who liked the original books well enough to buy the 2nd Epis probably was going to buy ON THE WAY TO THE WEDDING, anyway. About the price... The price is correct (although you can buy both 2nd Epis for $3.49) but they listed the page count as 0 (it's probably around 35--I don't have my proofs in front of me), and they have the incorrect blurb. I have the correct blurbs up on my website, if you're interested. So we end up with 8 total books, at about 35 pages each, for $1.99. That takes us to a total that mirrors a trade size novel at only 230 pages. Is that a good deal? Honestly for the general reader looking to buy a ebook, probably not. For the general reader looking to try a romance novel? The price tag really isn't that bad. For the fan who is dedicated to the series and/or author, the price is high when you add them all together. JQ also noted: In addition to the pricing you have down, you can also buy any three backlist titles for $16.95 and get both 2nd Epilogues for free, or you can buy the whole Bridgerton series for $34.95 and get both 2nd Epilogues for free. And you can't fault that since if anything, romance needs more historical readers! And HEA *eg*. As far as these ebooks going to print, JulieQ had an interesting tale to tell. It's hard to say. My original idea was to have these come out together in one (printed) volume. I wouldn't be surprised if this happens eventually. I have to agree the speed of the process is a great plus. And the shorts are a fun way to reconnect with character you love and a nice bonus while waiting for the next book by your favorite author to print. So it would be nice to see more authors do this. I wonder what reader reaction would have been if they had come out as a collection of eight in a print book. I think it comes down to choices. And sadly with more and more trade size books hitting the shelves, there will be more choices readers will have to make as far as where to spend our book dollars. Since I don't think too many of you went to work yesterday and didn't get paid, I don't think we can expect for writers to put out stories for free. If they do, great, wonderful, exciting, lets read... but we can't get into the habit of expecting it, can we? Or should we? PBW blogs about Story-to-Blog and in part III one of the first thing she says is look for someone to BUY your article/short story. And I have to agree that makes sense. Of course she does end it with if nothing else put it up on your site because readers love free stories *g*. Of course I do think the price should reflect the page count better than it does. But Julia Quinn does say this is Avon's first leap into orgininal epublishing. So maybe they are just shooting too high. The up side is as more and more publishers dip their toes into the eworld hopefully the books will get longer with a price to match the page count. Until then I still think it is pretty nifty and hope to see more publisher embrace ebooks. Of course I hope the western comes back. So what the hell do I know. 'E' Summaries The Viscount Who Loved Me Watch your toes, it's the Pall Mall Rematch! It's In His Kiss What happened to the diamonds???? General Bridgerton Info |
Sorry, I won't bite. For one thing, JQ is talking out of both sides of her mouth. "I would like to let you know that this is in no way a marketing ploy." v. "So yes, Avon is using the 2nd Epilogues to reach out to the e-reading public."
That "reaching out" is called a marketing ploy. I don't have a problem with the author trying to make money on the reader. It's what the business is all about. (although there is also something known as goodwill. I give out free advice in my business all day long in trying to build up goodwill).
But I think its a slap in the face if Avon thinks that this is what ebook readers want. Does Avon really think that ebook readers are so desparate for original content that schmaltzy epilogues are going to be satisfactory? I would much rather spend my $$ trying out something new than 8 epilogues. Let's be honest now. These aren't books. They are short stories that have no conflict in them. Everyone has their HEA already and do we need to revisit them 8 times???? Or is it a serial novel? If so, can we look forward to Avon selling more of its books online at $2.00 per 30 pages? I can't imagine any reader being really pleased with that.
By Anonymous, at 5/29/2006 10:46:00 PM
I think I have to agree with Jane on this. While I was never supportive of the 2nd Epi thing to begin with, I'm even more opposed to it now.
$2.00 for 30 some pages is a ridiculous price, and I think JQ DID talk out both sides of her mouth there.
Mostly, though, it's just not something I'm interested in reading. As I've said before, had she not followed up with the rest of the Bridgerton siblings, and included bits and pieces of the former characters, this might make more sense (such as Rachel Gibson does with her connected books), but she DID, so I don't really see the point in these 2nd Epis at all!
By Holly, at 5/29/2006 11:50:00 PM
Oh I agree they are going about it the wrong way as far as price to page count. As a series!slut, if I read the books and followed the series, this would make me sqqqqeeee.
But as the first one, I sort of expect it to go wrong. At the same time I think it is a nifty thing to try and a good step in the right direction.
For Quinn I can see enough people being willing to pay for them to make it a success. The down side is, the price IS too high. So will this or the next one need to bomb for AVON to figure that out. And will they figure out that it IS the price and not just no one is interested in those silly ebooks.
Honestly I wouldn't buy it at that price. But I have to say, I do want to read her know because I respect the fact she is trying to do something new and I respect the fact that she was willing to address our questions.
Where as many wouldn't. So there you go...
By sybil, at 5/30/2006 12:32:00 AM
I don't think that anyone is disgusted with the author (I hesitate to say "you" for fear of being accused of targeting anyone!) I think the general sentiment is that we are disgusted with the publisher. It's not the 2nd epilogues are a slap in the face. It's the idea that Avon thinks this is what ereaders want. I don't know that ereaders are so different than regular readers. I still buy books in the bookstore, I just prefer to buy them in ebook format.
It's more about the format, I guess, than the content. I don't need "e original content" although I do like it and think that ebook vendors will be providing content that mainstream publishers won't because of its desire to push the latest trend. If it is Avon's desire to test the market with these special ebook content, I can't help but wonder what it is that they are measuring. How much people love the Bridgertons or How much people love JQ? Because I can't see that it is a very good test of what the average reader who reads electronic formatted books wants to read.
By Anonymous, at 5/30/2006 06:47:00 AM
I'm not so sure it's aimed at ereaders as much as at Julia's many fans who would just love to see epilogues. She has tons of them and for Avon there is a built in market to try and get them interested in trying ebooks. Then if that is half way successful - down the line, they might think about getting more fully into the emarket themselves. It seems they are doing something similar with their erotic romance line. I think a lot of Avon readers who normally wouldn't give that genre a look, will now because it's Avon who is publishing them.
I'm not sure Avon is concerned about the average ereader but they are with potential Avon ereaders.
By Kristie (J), at 5/30/2006 07:23:00 AM
I have trouble seeing that as the motivation for Avon. Harper Collins releases several of its authors in both print and ebook format each month. It has partnered with Sony to provide its entire backlist and frontlist:
"Jane Friedman, CEO of HarperCollins, says she plans to digitize the entire frontlist and backlist -- up to 25,000 titles -- and make them available at the Sony store as soon as HarperCollins negotiates royalty rights with authors.' (business week article)
Thus it isn't that they are trying to break into the emarket. They have already done that. If they are "testing the market" then they are trying something else and I think it may be the serialization of books at a greater cost. Think how much more money they could make if they get readers to be used to the idea of paying per chapter or per part. The economic model for such a thing could be huge for them and bad the readers.
By Anonymous, at 5/30/2006 08:43:00 AM
That's very cool that Julia Quinn came on to answer questions. It'll be interesting to see what happens with these second epi's. I'm curious to see if it will entice Bridgerton/Avon fans to buy ebooks who they normally wouldn't. I won't be bothering for now. I might be enough of a sucker to shell out for an epi for the Duke and I or When He was Wicked. Yeah, I bet I'll be there.
Re: descriptions: Who's Edwina?
By Devon, at 5/30/2006 08:48:00 AM
I would agree to a point jane, cuz thinking on the avon ladies board, I would bet 95% of them by print books.
I wouldn't be shocked if that many have never read an ebook, or like kristie said, erotica.
Avon is safe to those fans. Avon gives them what they want. Quinn is a known name with a beloved series. So people who don't own ereaders and wouldn't even try an ebook - I could see downloading this. And maybe, just maybe it might bring some new fans.
Or not... I am still waiting for reaction to AVON RED.
By sybil, at 5/30/2006 09:08:00 AM
See - Sybil - you get the point I'm trying to make here. One of the regular Avon authors has just released a Avon Red book and many readers are giving it a try, because they have enjoyed her regular Avon books. Thus a new group of readers who wouldn't have tried erotica otherwise, are giving it a go. I see it as a similar thing with the epilogue ebooks. This is a good thing for Avon readers, who want more of the same characters, Avon authors (if more than Ms. Quinn take this route) and an ingenious test market idea for Avon publishers. The problem could come in with pricing. Should Avon be testing the emarket waters and have plans for the future, then the $1.99 for 30 pages could be a scary thing. At first, it doesn't seem like much - under 2 bucks. but when you take 8 (X 2 = $16.00) They are highballing prices right from the begining. And if it takes off, how might these prices affect other publishers of ebooks?
And think of the huge backlist that Avon has to call on should they venture into the emarket - wow - the mind boggles! And who has the rights to the (probably hundreds and hundreds) of OOP Avon books, the author or the publisher?
This is all 100% pure speculation of course, and I could be blowing smoke right out my ears.
By Kristie (J), at 5/30/2006 11:38:00 AM
YAY I got kristie's point ;)
Something else to keep in mind is this is where Moxie Press can come into play. Avon doesn't hold the copyright of all their backlist.
Although I do want to say that it can be something of a bitch for authors to get back the rights to older Avon title's. But I think that has to do with how the contracts are done and such.
I mean hell, Kleypas is taking characters. She either has a great agent, is just one smart cookie, made a deal with the devil or avon was seriously kissing her ass with her last contracts.
By sybil, at 5/30/2006 12:19:00 PM
Kristie J, I think we are talking about the same thing. It's just the motivation for the pricing/ebook thing that I am questioning and that I think you are too. It's the "lobster effect" if I can steal that phrase from Maili. First we are used to paying 5.99, then 7.99, then 9.99 (the supersized paperbacks) and then suddenly we are paying $16.00 for a book and we didn't even know what hit us.
By Anonymous, at 5/30/2006 01:01:00 PM
Jane: I think we are too - It's kind of like the gas thing. We go by litre's here so it's going to be different but a year ago we were paying something like 60 cents a litre for gas. Then Katrina hit and gas went up to $1.10 a litre. Then it went back down to 79 cents a litre and we (well not me)thought "Whoa! Squeal of a Deal there!!" without realizing we were still being vastly overcharged because gas should really have been something like 65 cents a litre. Not only that - but Joe Average Consumer still doesn't realize he's being ripped off if gas goes to 90 cents a litre 'cause at one time he paid $1.10. So with Avon charging $1.99, it's not unlike starting in the middle rather than at the bottom (not enough profit)or the top. (which we wouldn't pay - yet!)
And Sybil - yea - Moxie is an interesting player in the game! (besides having beautiful covers that is!) They are the independant e-publishers that are giving us what we want - OOP books at reasonable prices - and beautiful covers! I think they were very smart going and getting authors to sign with them for ebook rights. I'd love to know how Ms.Kleypas kept the rights to the Wallflower characters 'cause I may be wrong, but I'm thinking that is unusual. But with ebooks -think of the possiblities of all our old favourites coming back again (especially with beautiful covers such as say All Night Long by Michelle Jerrott.)
So my advice to authors should they so desire it, would be - get yourelf a good agent who will look after your future for you, not just the right now!!
By Kristie (J), at 5/30/2006 01:31:00 PM
JQ's post has me totally scratching my head.
"However, they are aware that there may be, and probably is, a large untapped market of potential readers who are more likely to buy ebooks than print."
and . . "they could also be used as a bonus to entice ereaders to the romance genre."
So the marketing ploy is to get people who read ebooks and but not romances to buy these "2nd epilogues" and then be hooked on romances? Seriously?
If this is truly the mentality of the marketing department then I really believe that NY publishers have no idea what is going on in the ebook market. Ebook readers who read romance are not a separate set of readers. They are a subset of romance readers. In fact, I think I read somewhere that romance is becoming the most popular downloaded ebook genre.
Is this for the teen market? Who is this nebulous untapped ereading market who is not already reading romances but must be enticed to do so by the JQ 2nd epilogues. Why wouldn't this amorphous market read the 100s of books that are a) romances and b) released in ebook format? Am quite confused. But then, it is well known that I am quite dense and sometimes even stooopid.
By Anonymous, at 5/30/2006 02:47:00 PM
Apparently I am the sucker that Avon is marketing to because I feel the epilogues are worth the price. I saw $2 and thought, hey, that’s not bad. I’m going to buy them and I don’t think they are too expensive. Why? Because I know what I’m getting for my money.
For example: I bought Dream Knight by Lois Bonde from Ellora’s Cave at 48 pages for $2.99 (.062 per page). Inside Lady Miranda is another EC Quickie and it was 41 pages for $2.99 (.072 per page). Now, here we have the epis, each 3o-ish pages long and $1.99 (.066 per page). The length/price seems pretty comparable to me, plus, I know what I’m getting with a JQ story, conflict or not, it’s going to be good, whereas the others...
As far as the marketing aspect goes, I’m an eBook reader, but I didn’t know that Avon books were being released in an eBook format. (Because apparently I have been living under a rock!) I went to the Harper Collins site and had two major problems:
1. The site is NOT user friendly, so that is going to be a major downfall. Regardless of how much I like the JQ epis, I don’t like trying to navigate that site. And as much as they pulled in a potential eBook reader, they lost me five minutes later.
2. The cost of an eBook is the same as print. Now, maybe I’m dense and someone can explain it, but shouldn’t the eBook cost be less? I mean, no printing, no materials, no truck or driver or stocker, so why am I paying $7.99 for both formats?
Needless to say, they have much bigger problems IMO with their established eBook marketing, that this is going to do very little in the way of that.
As a different viewpoint to these epis, I see them as a gift to the reader from JQ. For all of those fans out there who hang on to every story just waiting for the next sneak peak at their favorite characters, this is for them. For those of us who LOVE extra sappiness in our books and wouldn’t mind the second half being the HEA instead of the conflict…this is like Christmas.
...Fiona...
By Kerri Wall, at 5/30/2006 04:30:00 PM
You're right JQ, the perfectbound.com site is nice. I just spent a little time there and the books are less by an average of $1.50. Much better. However, for a reader to go Avon=Harper Collins=Perfectbound.com...I never would have done that on my own. Also, when I did my original search for Avon eBooks, this is what came up:
harpercollins.com
So, I don't know what the real solution is here. Obviously word about the correct site needs to get out. And yes, feel free to share the post.
...Fiona...
By Kerri Wall, at 5/31/2006 01:42:00 PM
I'm sure the readers will come down. Electronics always do after a while. Also, I'm sure a lot of people will like the second epis and will be willing to pay the $2. We buy sodas at 20 oz prices even though the 2 liter at Walmart os cheaper by far. We don't always make our decisions that way.
I won't be paying the same price for full length ebooks as for the print book, though. They need to be cheaper to reflect the lower production costs. I but used books a lot because I'm not rich enough to buy all of the books I read new. I often think about how I'm not supporting the author when I buy used, though. I would probably try to buy new ebooks instead of used print books if ebooks were cheaper than new print by a reasonable amount. Having them the same price (even without having the shipping cost) is just unreasonable.
By Anonymous, at 5/31/2006 07:11:00 PM
Since it seems like JQ is ferrying complaints to Harper Colllins about its website, let me chime in here. It would be nice if the "new releases" link actually lead to new releases instead of books published in December and November of 2003!
And I really like it when the HarperCollins website says an ebook is for sale but it is not on the Perfect Bound website (happened to me with Queen of Babble and something else).
And, it would be nice if PerfectBound customer service did actually answer customer support inquiries within 24 hours as it promises instead of ignoring them (as in when I emailed them re: Queen of Babble).
I actually had a problem downloading a book once and was so frustrated I called Harper Collins customer service. The customer service person told me that PerfectBound is a differet company and that no one at HarperCollins could help me. *Cries* I think one thing that will go a long way in encouraging ebook sales is to not make it so hard on readers to actually get the books.
Contentlinkinc.com (Random House's ebook site) is just as bad. The "new releases" section features Bill Clinton's biography. *sigh*
Simonsays is doing a better job. Not only are all ebooks ALWAYS 40% off, but you can see what books are being published in ebook format in the future.
The worst ebook publisher (besides Triskelion) has to be Penguin who a) never has all the books that are ebooks listed on its site and b) only updates their ebooks site every 3d Monday - well after the paperbacks are released.
To say that being an ereader today is frustrating is an understatement and all the low cost ereaders in the world isn't going to increase ereader-ship until it is made infinitely easier for readers to buy books. Which you would think would be a goal of publishers but you wouldn't be able to tell that from the state of the ebook webstores.
Sorry for the rant. Jayne and I have been talking about doing an ebook store review listing all the ebookstores and rating them. I guess we should get on that.
By Anonymous, at 5/31/2006 10:16:00 PM
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